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	<title>Comments on: Nominate a Website for the Design Canon</title>
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	<link>http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/</link>
	<description>by Jane Austen</description>
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		<title>By: doombot &#187; Why Web Design Is Just Vaudeville</title>
		<link>http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/comment-page-1/#comment-41991</link>
		<dc:creator>doombot &#187; Why Web Design Is Just Vaudeville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 08:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/#comment-41991</guid>
		<description>[...] recently wrote a post calling for you, my dear friends, to suggest what we might consider a &#8220;canonic&#8221; or [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recently wrote a post calling for you, my dear friends, to suggest what we might consider a &#8220;canonic&#8221; or [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/comment-page-1/#comment-40916</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 16:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/#comment-40916</guid>
		<description>I am pretty sure this is just another way of dodging my original question, but I will give you credit for coming at the answer from a different angle. I don&#039;t disagree entirely with the argument here, but for the sake of making my original line of thinking clear, I&#039;m going to play devil&#039;s advocate a bit more. 

The original question here, I think, is one that probably &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; be answered in the near future, if not the present. I don&#039;t think the form itself precludes or inherently de-emphasizes aesthetic beauty. I think that saying &quot;web sites should be measured by different standards from (say) posters&quot; is kind of like saying &quot;comics should be judged by different standards from art film&quot;—makes sense insofar as that just means that there are different formal elements worthy of consideration, but is kind of a cop-out if used to mean that one can be visual &quot;Art&quot; and the other cannot. 

Put another way: I think that saying &quot;web designers have different standards&quot; is exactly the problem. The article you linked suggests that web designers&#039; standards are &lt;i&gt;right&lt;/i&gt; and graphic designers&#039; standards are &lt;i&gt;wrong&lt;/i&gt; because they&#039;re not the ones designing web pages. I think, though, that if there were fewer perceived technical barriers such that graphic designers &lt;i&gt;were&lt;/i&gt; designing for the web more, utilizing similar standards to what we see in print, then we&#039;d see more beautiful—and not necessarily less functional—websites. (I have made the same argument about visual aesthetics in gaming, actually, but that&#039;s a topic for another day.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am pretty sure this is just another way of dodging my original question, but I will give you credit for coming at the answer from a different angle. I don&#8217;t disagree entirely with the argument here, but for the sake of making my original line of thinking clear, I&#8217;m going to play devil&#8217;s advocate a bit more. </p>
<p>The original question here, I think, is one that probably <i>could</i> be answered in the near future, if not the present. I don&#8217;t think the form itself precludes or inherently de-emphasizes aesthetic beauty. I think that saying &#8220;web sites should be measured by different standards from (say) posters&#8221; is kind of like saying &#8220;comics should be judged by different standards from art film&#8221;—makes sense insofar as that just means that there are different formal elements worthy of consideration, but is kind of a cop-out if used to mean that one can be visual &#8220;Art&#8221; and the other cannot. </p>
<p>Put another way: I think that saying &#8220;web designers have different standards&#8221; is exactly the problem. The article you linked suggests that web designers&#8217; standards are <i>right</i> and graphic designers&#8217; standards are <i>wrong</i> because they&#8217;re not the ones designing web pages. I think, though, that if there were fewer perceived technical barriers such that graphic designers <i>were</i> designing for the web more, utilizing similar standards to what we see in print, then we&#8217;d see more beautiful—and not necessarily less functional—websites. (I have made the same argument about visual aesthetics in gaming, actually, but that&#8217;s a topic for another day.)</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/comment-page-1/#comment-40647</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/#comment-40647</guid>
		<description>I shall attempt to redeem my previous comment by passing on this link to &lt;a href=&#039;http://bokardo.com/archives/canonical&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an essay by web designer Joshua Porter&lt;/a&gt;, in which he argues that the problem is not necessarily with the websites, but with the question and how we judge what should be canonical. Very good points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shall attempt to redeem my previous comment by passing on this link to <a href='http://bokardo.com/archives/canonical' rel="nofollow">an essay by web designer Joshua Porter</a>, in which he argues that the problem is not necessarily with the websites, but with the question and how we judge what should be canonical. Very good points.</p>
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		<title>By: Diego</title>
		<link>http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/comment-page-1/#comment-38828</link>
		<dc:creator>Diego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 23:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/#comment-38828</guid>
		<description>The websites featured here alternate between vapid flashiness, good design, and a transcendent experience, but I don&#039;t think anything is iconic.

www.thefwa.com 

...only one of various sites that cull &quot;good sites.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The websites featured here alternate between vapid flashiness, good design, and a transcendent experience, but I don&#8217;t think anything is iconic.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thefwa.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefwa.com</a> </p>
<p>&#8230;only one of various sites that cull &#8220;good sites.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Diego</title>
		<link>http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/comment-page-1/#comment-38827</link>
		<dc:creator>Diego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 23:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/#comment-38827</guid>
		<description>Well designed websites are common... but a website that has become an iconic example of good design? I&#039;m not sure one exists yet. The &quot;technology is changing as we speak&quot; argument seems valid to an extent. Designers were given CSS what three, four years ago? But regardless, it seems like there has been enough time between technological advancements for there to have been &lt;em&gt;something&lt;/em&gt; by now.  

But first off, I think it&#039;s important to acknowledge the great variety in kinds of websites. It makes asking for a website that has become iconic design kind of like asking for an iconic use of paint--&quot;website&quot; is so general a term as to be the medium for design, not an immediate example of design itself. So I suspect one may need to be more specific and say what &quot;blog&quot; or &quot;search engine&quot; is iconic design.

Even after making this distinction however, I&#039;m not sure there are blogs or search engines that have stood the design test of time, so maybe no website has transcended the technology precisely &lt;em&gt;because&lt;/em&gt; the medium is mediated by technology? After all, despite all the new advancements that now go behind making a poster in the 21st century, you still end up with ink on paper. A logo is still a picture. Websites can have logos, but they exist on a machine (and not even yours) provided that machine is a Macintosh/PC with Firefox, Explorer, etc., and an internet connection. And then, no matter what the website, you use the same bubbly elevator buttons to scroll the page, adjust the window to view the site better, and so on. In other words, the experience of viewing a website is inexorably linked to the hardware and software used to view that site in the first place, perhaps hindering any transcendence that could take place.

But I have seen sites that made me forget I was visiting a website, and I think that&#039;s gets closer to something transcendent, iconic. That these sites tend to involve flash technology is incidental (I can hear Jason groaning,) the strength of these sites relies on adding a layer of separation between the medium for the content, and the content itself, thereby allowing the content to be elevated by the design, and vice versa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well designed websites are common&#8230; but a website that has become an iconic example of good design? I&#8217;m not sure one exists yet. The &#8220;technology is changing as we speak&#8221; argument seems valid to an extent. Designers were given CSS what three, four years ago? But regardless, it seems like there has been enough time between technological advancements for there to have been <em>something</em> by now.  </p>
<p>But first off, I think it&#8217;s important to acknowledge the great variety in kinds of websites. It makes asking for a website that has become iconic design kind of like asking for an iconic use of paint&#8211;&#8221;website&#8221; is so general a term as to be the medium for design, not an immediate example of design itself. So I suspect one may need to be more specific and say what &#8220;blog&#8221; or &#8220;search engine&#8221; is iconic design.</p>
<p>Even after making this distinction however, I&#8217;m not sure there are blogs or search engines that have stood the design test of time, so maybe no website has transcended the technology precisely <em>because</em> the medium is mediated by technology? After all, despite all the new advancements that now go behind making a poster in the 21st century, you still end up with ink on paper. A logo is still a picture. Websites can have logos, but they exist on a machine (and not even yours) provided that machine is a Macintosh/PC with Firefox, Explorer, etc., and an internet connection. And then, no matter what the website, you use the same bubbly elevator buttons to scroll the page, adjust the window to view the site better, and so on. In other words, the experience of viewing a website is inexorably linked to the hardware and software used to view that site in the first place, perhaps hindering any transcendence that could take place.</p>
<p>But I have seen sites that made me forget I was visiting a website, and I think that&#8217;s gets closer to something transcendent, iconic. That these sites tend to involve flash technology is incidental (I can hear Jason groaning,) the strength of these sites relies on adding a layer of separation between the medium for the content, and the content itself, thereby allowing the content to be elevated by the design, and vice versa.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/comment-page-1/#comment-38359</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/#comment-38359</guid>
		<description>Okay, Dan ignored the instructions not to say &quot;design changes too fast.&quot; He took the bullet so none of you would have to. Moving on...

Part of me wants to nominate &lt;a href=&quot;http://escapistmagazine.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Escapist&#039;s&lt;/a&gt; &lt;i&gt;old&lt;/i&gt; design, but I&#039;m hesitant to do so because what worked about it was that it treated the screen more or less like a print magazine spread. Also, the text fell funny in its paragraphs, such that nearly every column ended in a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widows_and_orphans&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;widow&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, Dan ignored the instructions not to say &#8220;design changes too fast.&#8221; He took the bullet so none of you would have to. Moving on&#8230;</p>
<p>Part of me wants to nominate <a href="http://escapistmagazine.com" rel="nofollow">The Escapist&#8217;s</a> <i>old</i> design, but I&#8217;m hesitant to do so because what worked about it was that it treated the screen more or less like a print magazine spread. Also, the text fell funny in its paragraphs, such that nearly every column ended in a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widows_and_orphans" rel="nofollow">widow</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/comment-page-1/#comment-38357</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 16:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doombot.com/2007/11/06/nominate-a-website-for-the-design-canon/#comment-38357</guid>
		<description>I wonder if part of the problem with coming up with an iconic website is related to the fact that the medium itself is changing so quickly. Take Apple, for example (oh you knew I couldn&#039;t resist). They&#039;ve had literally &lt;a href=&#039;http://www.macuser.com/internet/remembrance_of_apple_websites.php&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;dozens of different designs&lt;/a&gt; for their website in the last twelve years. And unlike paintings and sculptures, which are often preserved for memory, websites for the most part aren&#039;t (unless you count archive.org and Google&#039;s cache). Not to mention that technology changes at such a rapid clip on the web as well. Consider the use of Flash today vs. just a few years ago.

Personally, I nominate Kai&#039;s old EiC design. Which I don&#039;t think exists any more, except in my head. But it was beautiful, especially for the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if part of the problem with coming up with an iconic website is related to the fact that the medium itself is changing so quickly. Take Apple, for example (oh you knew I couldn&#8217;t resist). They&#8217;ve had literally <a href='http://www.macuser.com/internet/remembrance_of_apple_websites.php' rel="nofollow">dozens of different designs</a> for their website in the last twelve years. And unlike paintings and sculptures, which are often preserved for memory, websites for the most part aren&#8217;t (unless you count archive.org and Google&#8217;s cache). Not to mention that technology changes at such a rapid clip on the web as well. Consider the use of Flash today vs. just a few years ago.</p>
<p>Personally, I nominate Kai&#8217;s old EiC design. Which I don&#8217;t think exists any more, except in my head. But it was beautiful, especially for the time.</p>
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